Greg and Amy discuss the challenges of living as a Christian in a secular culture, giving advice on how to battle depression and melancholy. They remind believers that God ultimately wins and even current struggles serve a greater purpose in advancing his plan.
Transcript
Question: Greg recently discussed a SCOTUS decision restraining DEI indoctrination—a depressingly small victory. We know how it ends: Jesus has overcome the world, but today it’s a depressing world. Any suggestions, Greg and Amy, to battle culture-induced melancholy?
Greg: Well, of course, we all have to deal with this because we’re all living in this culture, and we’re mindful of the impact of error and lies—cultural lies—on individual people and groups of people. The decisions that culture makes and the trends in culture influence lots of people. So, I’m sympathetic, obviously, to this.
I’ll tell you what I do. I don’t watch or listen to the news, and I don’t read news periodicals. There’s so much happening in the world that we cannot do anything about, and if we can’t do anything about it, then why worry about it? People have argued it’s helpful to know what’s going on, but on the other hand, when you learn about all the things that happen, and all they do is generate anger and depression, what’s the point? Why continue to go over that?
Now, there’s a passage in Philippians that is meant to be applied to individuals, but I think it can apply to broader issues too. Paul says, “Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence or anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.” Well, that’s dealing with individuals, I think, but it certainly has application for culture. Why dwell on something that’s happening in culture that you don’t like and have no way of making a difference on?
Sometimes I say, “Well, I can’t do anything about that. I’m just going to let it go.” Something political, or policy-wise, or whatever. So, one way to deal with melancholy, I think, is to not obsess on all the bad things that are going on that we have no capability of influencing.
Now, you and I have a little bit of a different kind of capability, because we have a bully pulpit. We have a radio show—or we have a podcast. We have thousands of listeners, so we can influence thousands of people by working on certain ideas and communicating that. That does help, but most people don’t have that bully pulpit. And so, if you don’t have that ability to influence lots of people and change the circumstances, then there’s not much you can do about it. Why fuss and worry about it?
Why is the last thing you do in the evening to watch the news before you go to bed? First thing you do—newspaper or news reports—when you get up? No wonder you’re melancholy all day long. You start the day bad. You end the day bad. I’d rather start the day without all of that stuff. And it isn’t that I don’t check some things out, but I don’t obsess about any of this. And the news that I do focus on a little bit more are things that are appropriate to my field—things that I can speak on, that I can do something about. For example, a couple of weeks ago, there was a news report about the suicide trends and how the concern is that suicide is going to become a social contagion—a fad. Okay, most people can’t do anything about that. We can. So, I can talk about it here and have a broader impact. I have a certain lane that, maybe. is broader than most people, but even so, I don’t do deep dives into all this news stuff. I learn what I need to learn to serve the needs that I can serve, and then I don’t obsess about the other stuff. I just let it go.
Amy: This goes back to only carrying what you were meant to carry. We have a limit to what we can influence, and that doesn’t mean you don’t look at anything, but it just means you have a realistic understanding of what you can do. And, again, you can influence people around you, even if you don’t have a radio show.
But I think when we’re talking about how to combat the melancholy that comes about as you feel all these things are just coming down on this culture and we seem to be losing, again, I just go back to the end of the book. This is how God chose to encourage the early Christians. He had John write Revelation, and Revelation is the declaration by God that he wins. So, no matter what it looks like now, no matter what suffering we’re going through now, that is the future. I honestly think this is the key to keep going on these things.
All you have to do is look at the big picture of the whole Bible. Look at the prophets. Look at Jeremiah. He was the weeping prophet. Look at the horrible situation he was in, but look what that led to, ultimately. That wasn’t the end of the story. Look at Moses. Now, when Moses first talks to Pharaoh and says, “You’ve got to let my people go,” what does Pharaoh do? He makes their job harder, right? And everyone says, “This is terrible. Stop trying to help us. This is the worst.” But, of course, that is only the middle of the story, and we know that God actually rescued them out of there.
So, we can’t have this short-term view of all of reality. We have to be aware that God wins, and we have to keep reminding ourselves of that. Also, look at the fact that God uses terrible things to accomplish good things. Take, for example, the cross. The worst sin ever committed happened on the cross, and it was the best thing that ever happened to us. Think about when Jesus was dying on the cross and how people felt at that time—how the Christians felt. It seemed like the end. It seemed like everything was over. Nothing worse could possibly happen than this. I imagine they were pretty depressed. But that was actually the means that was going to bring the victory.
Greg: “Momentary light affliction,” Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 4, “is producing for us an eternal weight of glory.” I like that passage, in part, because of the power of the verb. It is the affliction that is producing this thing that’s going to be better than it would have been had we not had the affliction—better for us in eternity, where neither moth nor rust destroy or thieves break in and steal, as Jesus put it. So, I do take refuge in that a lot.
It is painful. I think the American experiment was noble and produced something magnificent for 200 years, which is why people from all over the world have been clawing at our borders, trying to get in and be part of the American dream—American culture—all the good things that we have that are a result of godly men who built something based on a Christian understanding of reality, a Judeo-Christian understanding of reality, with checks and balances and all these things to make it work. And, then, to see all of that deteriorate before my eyes—not just in one lifetime, but just in the last 15 years—to see so much of this completely disappear, it’s painful. I don’t want it to go away. I value the appropriate liberties that we’ve had, and I think it’s created good for people—good for human beings—and human flourishing was the result.
Nevertheless, all the kingdoms of this world are going to crumble, ultimately, before the kingdom of our Lord is ushered in, and that’s going to be, of course, so much better than all the others. But it’s painful going through the process, and this is why looking at the end is so important for us.
Amy: It makes such a difference to me—or at least, this is what I focus on, to varying degrees of success in overcoming the melancholy—but it makes such a difference to know that it’s not just that, well, God’s losing for a little bit right now, but then he’s going to come back. That’s not the same as saying that, actually, what is happening right now is furthering God’s plan in some way, even though it’s trying to fight against God. This is why, in Acts, they quote that psalm, “Why do the nations rage against God?” It’s completely futile. They can’t ruin God’s plan in any way. God is using even the things they’re doing to rebel against him to further his own plan. So, we can just take some rest in that and continue, and know that we suffer now and have glory later. That is the way Peter describes it.
Greg: The temptation is to look for it all right here in this life, and there are wonderful things to be had in this life that God has appointed for us—a great world that he’s made—but, of course, sin corrupts everything. So, it’s not going to be as we like it in this life. There will be a time when the earth will be as we like it, and we’re going to be back on earth—one that’s remade and not broken—and enjoying things beyond what we could even imagine.